Just for clarification, I am 'atheist' in that I do not believe in the existence of any gods or supernatural beings. Simple as that.
Joe Grundy
JoinedPosts by Joe Grundy
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553
Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?
by Chariklo inuntil recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.
it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.
do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.
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553
Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?
by Chariklo inuntil recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.
it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.
do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.
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Joe Grundy
I may regret posting this (I tend to stay away from this sort of stuff) but here goes.
I never was a dub, and I am an atheist. I don't scorn anyone. If by 'believers' you mean 'believers in a religion or a deity/deities' I don't scorn them either. I respect their beliefs and their right to hold them, whatever those beliefs may be - they are all equally valid, whether it's a modern cult (like JWs) or an older more traditional religion such as a Thai prostitute lighting incense to Buddha on her way to work. I've known both and many others.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but not everyone is entitled to their own facts.
But, as someone with an enquiring mind, I am entitled to require anyone who wishes to foist their beliefs on me to justify them. That's my right, I think. AND, if their particular belief system imposes on people's lives in a way which causes damage, hurt and pain (and WTBTS surely does) and they seek to impose it on others I am even more entitled to challenge them and ask them to justify it. The more damage, the more impact, the more justification is required. Same for WTBTS as the Spanish Inquisition.
If those proselytising for their religion hold themselves out as capable of being intellectually able to persuade converts (as JW publishers do) I am entitled to challenge and question. That is not scorn. If they seek out the vulnerable (as JWs do) I am entitled to challenge them on behalf of their vulnerable targets.
To bring it to the nitty-gritty: I don't scorn JWs. I condemn the GB and the senior echelons because they are well aware what they're doing. For the average JW, I am sad (to say I feel pity would be condescending). For the religion itself, well it's just another relatively small doomsday cult and is of no consequence except for the damage it does to its adherents.
This site has evolved into a support forum. It has tremendous resources for those (like me) seeking information. Some seekers really need support provided in a neutral way, with clear, honest information - and that's the best form of support for someone who is challenging the beliefs fed to them under duress.
It is, of course, an open internet forum and anyone can post. I am sad (as a quasi-outsider) that we have this sort of question posed as a thread title with its assumptions. It's crap. By all means start a thread and ask for information, opinions, (civilised) argument if you wish. There are plenty of sites available for rabid arguments, and we've had our fair share of nutters and wind-up merchants here in my time. It would be a shame if this site was degenerated - I hope that it will remain a welcoming site for those JWs taking a tentative first step into the real world looking for answers.
Just my view, and I appreciate that as a never was dub I am a bit of an outsider.
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553
Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?
by Chariklo inuntil recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.
it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.
do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.
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Joe Grundy
"Geez, here we go again."
Quite.
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Personal Anthems
by zed is dead ini use music to motivate me, and focus on important things in life.
i will share one song that helps me to motivate myself for positive change.
please feel free to share yours.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjwce4b0rka.
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Joe Grundy
Thank you!
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Words that were really hard to hear...
by NeverKnew inlast night, i listened to words that were really hard to hear.
i'm not sure how much of the conversation i blocked out.. i intentionally initiated a conversation with a jw man that i've grown very fond of who has been talking about marriage next year as recently as last weekend (our anniversary weekend).
we have had the conversation before, but i have to admit, i have a tough time listening and i find that i leave the conversations not believing what i'm hearing so therefore i can't seem to retain the details.
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Joe Grundy
NeverKnew:
If you love somebody, you love them. You don't give a rat's ass (or a dingo's kidney!) what anyone else thinks. You are prepared to make it work for the two of you come what may.
If either party doesn't feel that, for whatever reason, it won't work.
And that's the top and bottom of it, without having to take into account all the crazy JW stuff.
Sounds like this guy is not for you, sorry.
I wish you well.
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Personal Anthems
by zed is dead ini use music to motivate me, and focus on important things in life.
i will share one song that helps me to motivate myself for positive change.
please feel free to share yours.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjwce4b0rka.
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Joe Grundy
Yesterday was the birthday of a Thai lady that I became engaged to while we were both living in Cyprus in 2008. Sadly, it didn't work out. But she remains the most beautiful woman that I have ever been in love with or have made love to.
At one time we were in love and living on different continents. This still makes me cry a little:
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Thinking of becoming a JW.
by Kate82 inhi,.
i am new to here so please be bear with me.. i have always believed in god, but was never baptised, my parents wanted me to make up my own mind religon wise.. i am thinking of becoming a jw and am just needing some advice on how to do this, bible study and jw beliefs.
also do jw say grace and how.. i am greatful of any help.. thanks.
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Joe Grundy
Dear Katie82
I never was a JW - I view it from 'the outside'.
The most important thing, I think, is for you to ask questions, lots of questions, and push until you get satisfactory, checkable, answers that satisfy you.
One thing is for sure - if you 'join'the JWs in any sort of way, you will be discouraged from asking questions and any answers you get are unlikely to make any sort of rational sense.
Best wishes.
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Please read
by JeffT inmy father passed around 9 this morning.
he'd been in poor health for some time, but it still comes as a shock to have him gone.
we are going to miss him terribly.
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Joe Grundy
Very sorry to hear of your loss, Jeff. You must be so proud of your Dad - and it was good to read that you had been able to heal any wounds in time.
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Got the Job!
by LouBelle ingot it peeps!
they really like me and want me on board.
i'll be receiving the full offer and contract next week.
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Joe Grundy
LouBelle
Congratulations and very well done! Remember that your employer is lucky to have you.
You have a PM.
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Do You Ever Doubt Your Efforts Are Futile?
by Elephant in...hello folks.... ...i've read countless of posts, ideas, opinions, etc here and i'm interested in your response.... ...there is a whole gamut of feelings here from individuals that are simply annoyed with the wt organization, to those that come off as hellbent on putting the org out of comission.... ...others yet seem to have made it their mission in life to eradicate the concept of god himself.... ...to any of these, what is your motivation?
and do you ever doubt that these efforts are futile?
do you feel that you posses the power/ability/means to change the convictions/faiths of the masses?
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Joe Grundy
Nuff said for here and for now.